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Topic Title: VIDEO - Dr. John Crisler against Finasteride usage, permanent side effects
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Created On: 06/18/2009 12:09 PM
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 06/18/2009 12:09 PM
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madclown
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Dr. John Crisler speaking out about the dangers of Finasteride at a recent medical symposium, and how he treats hairloss without internal 5AR inhibitors.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8e7HERXA3s

More: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nXWVTStnHs

 06/18/2009 12:32 PM
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Innermind
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its interesting, I havent really had problems from Fin, so I think ill keep taking it but I have strongly considered adding spironolactone and this video, despite lack of any real evidence except words from a DO, Im going to try it.

-------------------------
[email protected](K it! No treatments. Nothing. Im done wasting money.
Dr. Thomas (scum) Wentland-1800 hairs, destroyed my life.
Dr. Ron Shapiro- 176 FUE into scar. Happy with results.
Buzzing my head no guard, happy except for the marks left from scumland, i mean Dr. wentland.
 06/18/2009 12:40 PM
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calvinmd
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Just wait until there is some kind of real option for hair restoration without ongoing Fin usage - I'll bet we see a wave of increased complaints about how bad Fin really has been. Right now I suspect that there's a certain amount of reluctance to criticize it. I think we're collectively a little afraid of causing it to be investigated or yanked off the market. Or maybe we're a little afraid of what we might find out about it, and be forced to wrestle with ourselves about continuing with it.

 06/18/2009 12:58 PM
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chonger
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it seemed to address more of the mental issues, depression leading to suicide, which I imagine the users were already prone to having. (i didn't watch the entire clip, however, so let me know if I am wrong) As we all know, hairloss can lead to depression in many people. I am definately stressed over my loss and have been for many years. But for me it just kept me out of certain social situations and definately cut down on the enjoyment of my life because I missed certain events because I didn't want to be seen without a hat. I will continue to take Finasteride because I lost a ton of hair when I stopped using it before when we decided to have a baby.
 06/18/2009 01:20 PM
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HairIsTooThin
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Originally posted by: chonger

it seemed to address more of the mental issues, depression leading to suicide, which I imagine the users were already prone to having. (i didn't watch the entire clip, however, so let me know if I am wrong) As we all know, hairloss can lead to depression in many people. I am definately stressed over my loss and have been for many years. But for me it just kept me out of certain social situations and definately cut down on the enjoyment of my life because I missed certain events because I didn't want to be seen without a hat. I will continue to take Finasteride because I lost a ton of hair when I stopped using it before when we decided to have a baby.


Same here.
What causes my depression is hair loss. Not fin or dut. Dut actually helps with depression because I know I'm using the most powerful drug to keep hair.
 06/18/2009 01:40 PM
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Innermind
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Originally posted by: calvinmd

Just wait until there is some kind of real option for hair restoration without ongoing Fin usage - I'll bet we see a wave of increased complaints about how bad Fin really has been. Right now I suspect that there's a certain amount of reluctance to criticize it. I think we're collectively a little afraid of causing it to be investigated or yanked off the market. Or maybe we're a little afraid of what we might find out about it, and be forced to wrestle with ourselves about continuing with it.


If i had any reason to criticize it I would. Truth is, it really hasnt bothered me. However, I'd be all about criticzing Fin if it would cause pharmaceutical companies to lower prices or

-------------------------
[email protected](K it! No treatments. Nothing. Im done wasting money.
Dr. Thomas (scum) Wentland-1800 hairs, destroyed my life.
Dr. Ron Shapiro- 176 FUE into scar. Happy with results.
Buzzing my head no guard, happy except for the marks left from scumland, i mean Dr. wentland.
 06/18/2009 01:57 PM
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majorsixth
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Look! there are millions of men who have been prescribed propecia for BPH, and the drug as helped them lead a normal life. It's absolutely amazing that this drug gets so much stick from those that use it for hair loss.

The irony is that many hair loss users of the drug exceed the stated 1mg dosage. So it may be their own fault.

How many more times must it be said? BE INFORMED ABOUT THE MEDICATION YOU ARE CONSIDERING AS A TREATMENT. BUT IF YOU STILL DECIDE TO TAKE IT AFTER THIS THEN DON'T MOAN.

Personally i believe the people considering propecia as a possible treatment should be given the facts then if they still wish to proceed then they should be asked to sign a consent form before being prescribed the drug. So in the event they complain after, a law siut can be taken against them.

It really is boring listening to the countless accounts of how propecia as ruined lifes.
 06/18/2009 02:54 PM
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Balance
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Ok watched the first video. First thing I noticed is that the dude's hair looks very good, especially considering he's an older guy. Seemed sincere about what he was saying but kinda lost me a little when he didn't want to give his formula. Am I wrong to be critical of him for this?
 06/18/2009 04:07 PM
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stax
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I can speak from personal experience being on and off of Fin a million times, that this permanent side effect thing is a bunch of bullshit IMO.


First of all the human body is AMAZINGLY adaptable and complex, and has AMAZING capabilities of healing itself and correcting problems once you give it the right environment to do so. Sure for some it may take a little bit longer for your body to bounce back, but it WILL bounce back.


People need to realize that there could be other borderline problems going on with your body and when you take the Fin it stresses out your body and further exaberates this issue. For example you could be eating the wrong foods or living a crappy unhealthy lifestyle that is already leaving your bodies hormonal systems not in optimal functioning, then you take Fin and it further creates a problem. Or you could be deficient in a mineral like Zinc, Magnesium, Iodine,ect, and when you take Fin it can stress the liver and further cause some mineral depletion. Also check for heavy metals as i had high arsenic and borderline high mercury and would have enver guessed it. I was also Zinc deficient, manganese deficient, and iodine deficient, and this can cause bad estrogen metabolism.



Fin as with any drug could have also left its drug deposits in your body and there are many ways to wash drug deposits out of yor body. Fin could have possibly shut you down like steroids do, but there are things you can take to get your hormones working properly again.



The bottom line is, people have healed themselves from stage 4 cancer and type 2 diabetes treating their bodies right, cleaning them out of toxins,ect, and if this can be done than certainly you can reverse these side effects from using Fin.



Eat all organic, not too much fat, clean your body out from all toxins, mold, yeast, parasites, bacteria, make sure you have optimal levels of ALL minerals, take organic herbs that support testosterone production and inhibit DHT and Estrogen, stop eating and drinking out of plastic materials, hit the gym, do cardio, check your Adrenal and Thyroid function ( a lot of people have borderline these issues ), test for good and bad estrogen metabolites, and the last resort see an endocrinologist and he may have to put you on some Clomid or something to restart your LH and Testosterone production.




You would be amazed at how the body responds when you ELIMINATE all the things that the body does not like, basically everything that is not natural dont touch it.



There is no such thing as permanent depression or permanent low libido. If stage 4 cancer and type 2 diabetes isnt permanent and people have healed themselfves from it without cemo, then people can get their bodies back on track from Finasteride use, forsure.


The problem is 90% of the doctors and people out there dont know a damn thing about nutrition and health.



Now i know its best to not use drugs of any kind, but sometimes you have no choice and im actually using Fin right now with no sides now that ive been getting rid of these heavy metals from my body, using Ashwagandha, using topical Magnesium oil, and i havent even bought this natural anti-estrogen herbal product yet that im sure with make me feel even better, and its just some natural herbs. If i lose hair and keep worrying about it this is going to make me MORE sick from the stress and highly acidic environment this stress causes in your body which will wreak havoc. Its especially stressfull when you are a naturally fit and attractive guy and going bald will knock most down on the attractive scale. You get further in life when you are good looking, im sorry i know this is true from personal experience and seeing it all around me. Life is easier for you especially if you actually are talented too.



IMO if you keep Estrogen and its bad metabolites in check and AVOID all estrogen containing chemicals and materials then you will not have a problem. There are ayurvedic herbs like Ashwagandha and Bacopa that regulate GABA and are adaptogens meaning they will protect your adrenals,ect, that i think are a good idea incase you are one of those people that Fin can affect your gaba function. But in most people i think the sides will work themselves out over a couple months, you just have to be patient and i think its hard.



There are FAR worse drugs than Fin people are taking and they dont suffer these permanent side effects. I think its possible that your body may over produce DHT when you quit for a while leaving you with lower Free Testosterone, but this wont last forever especially if you live the right lifestyle and take some natural herbals for a whole to get your body back into balance.



My basic bottom line is that if you actually give the body everything it needs, and nothing it doesnt need or is good for it, then you wont have these problems. The human body is an AMAZING machine, especially if we can go so long with abusing our bodies for 20, 30, 40 years with toxic garbage food and chemicals constantly, and not get sick or disease. I highly doubt a little drug like Fin is going to permanently screw your body up forever beyond repair.



Remember, when we are in our young teens we dont produce much DHT or Estrogen at all it is mostly Testosterone, and we are the healthiest then with the highest sex drive and look the best. I dont beleive we need that much DHT past puberty and beleive that just like we only need small amounts of Estrogen, that we only need minor amounts of DHT, and Fin still leaves us with a fair amount of DHT. As long as Testosterone levels are good, and Estrogen is in check, then i think we will wont have any issues. I think that in todays world because there is so much Estrogen out in the environment and non organic food, coupled with the fact that most people have too much bodyfat and are inactive with leads to higher estrogen levels, that people need MORE DHT in their body for this reason only to combat the exessive estrogen levels we have today.




 06/18/2009 04:27 PM
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Calvin 2.0
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The bottom line is, people have healed themselves from stage 4 cancer and type 2 diabetes treating their bodies right, cleaning them out of toxins,ect, and if this can be done than certainly you can reverse these side effects from using Fin.


Peanuts probably don't make you sick. Peanuts are among the substances that a properly-functioning human body can handle.

So anyone claiming that they do get sick from peanuts is full of sh*t, right?

 06/18/2009 06:46 PM
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stax
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What you said doesnt even make any sense.


First of all peanuts are highly allergenic and all contain a toxic mold called aflatoxin which is highly cancerous. There are over 10 cancer causing toxins and substances in peanuts and the worst thing is people are eating all kinds of crap they think is good for them and its whats greatly contributing to their problems. Even all organic. Peanuts are one of the worst foods you can eat and over time WILL damage and do harm to your body.



Now as far as Fin, i didnt say anybody was full of shit if they get sides, read properly what i said, i said that permanent sides are bs in my opinion and yes a perfectly normally functioning body that is clean and has everything it needs wont have these permanent depression and limp dick,ect. When you think of if that is a total JOKE.


Anybody with permanent depression you send me a PM and i will end it for you gauanteed if you follow what i say. Same thing with limp dick.



I personally think that Propecia is one of the safer drugs because all its doing is really altering your hormones a bit, unlike other drugs like statins, aspirin, heart medication, sleeing pills, depression pills,ect, which are doing far worse and more things to your body. If you adress the possible estrogen issue then i think you will be more than fine. I think Fin still leaves us with enough DHT because not only does it leave us still with some type 2 DHT but also doesnt effect our type 1 DHT. Higher normal testosterone and other androgens, HGH, DHEA, Thyroid levels, good Cortisol levels and adrenal function, and lower end Estrogen and DHT levels i think is a very healthy hormonal balance.



Theer are tons of studies showing how exess estrogen is bad for males, and that good testosterone levels make you live longer and you are a lot less likely to die from any cause, but in there i see no mention of high DHT levels to do with living longer and longevity. I dont agree with totally wiping out DHT or any other hormone, but the majority who are on Fin still have DHT levels in the normal range, even if it is in the lower end, and if estrogen is also in the lower end and bioavailable testosterone in the upper end, along with good adrenal and thyroid function, then i think that there is nothing negative about that.



Just my opinion.
 06/18/2009 08:36 PM
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Calvin 2.0
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The point of the peanuts comment was not peanuts.

The point was that the same substance may not cause the same reaction (or the same magnitude of the reaction) in someone else as it does for you.




I don't know how you can sit here and say "The stories of permanent ill effects with Finasteride are bullsh*t."

Have you really paid attention to the Finasteride sufferers' message boards? There are guys on there (not one or two, but multiple guys) who have done TESTOSTERONE REPLACEMENT THERAPY, artificially jacked their androgen levels up to normal and beyond, without their Fin-induced side effects abating. How does this fit into your version of the story?

 06/18/2009 09:14 PM
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caesarsbane
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His compound is for sale. Has anyone tried it?
http://www.musclechatroom.com/...showthread.php?p=27042
 06/18/2009 10:06 PM
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stax
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Originally posted by: Calvin 2.0

The point of the peanuts comment was not peanuts.



The point was that the same substance may not cause the same reaction (or the same magnitude of the reaction) in someone else as it does for you.









I don't know how you can sit here and say "The stories of permanent ill effects with Finasteride are bullsh*t."



Have you really paid attention to the Finasteride sufferers' message boards? There are guys on there (not one or two, but multiple guys) who have done TESTOSTERONE REPLACEMENT THERAPY, artificially jacked their androgen levels up to normal and beyond, without their Fin-induced side effects abating. How does this fit into your version of the story?




This is going to be my last post on the subject. This is ridiculous.


Yeah smart move, artificially jack your Testosterone levels up and throw your body more out of whack. NATURAL is the key! Start treating your body like you should be doing, make sure you are not deficient in any minerals which is VERY important and we are made of minerals and they are involved in millions of functions and enzymes in our bodies.


Check adrenals 4 times a day saliva Cortisol test and full thyroid panel. When people even have borderline these issues Testosterone replacement will further cause problems. Check estrogen metabolites there is a test. If your going to use drugs you dont use Testosterone which will further surpress you, you use HCG and Clomid,ect, and restart your system along with herbals.



The ONLY thing Fin does is lower DHT in the body thats it. If these people claiming permanent side effects from Fin use get their DHT levels checked and they are still low, then sure i can understand that that could cause problems. So bioidentical DHT gel should solve that problem. If these people have normal DHT levels than i dont see what the problem could be because all Fin does is lower DHT levels thats it, when you quit, they return to normal.


I think these people have other issues going on because ive taken Fin before with an OTC anti-estrogen called Arom-X i beleive, and my sex drive, energy, strength was through the roof, face was lean, i would fantasize about woman and be infatuated all day. I was ALSO eating a raw food diet filled with organic superfoods like the best Maca you can buy from Puru, virgin coconut oil, goji berries, raw cacao, ashwagandha,ect. These all help ramp up hormone production.



If there DHT levels are normal and all other hormones and metabolites are normal, then maybe there receptors are not sensative to the hormones and in that case they should do a 24 hour iodine loading test because most people are deficient and iodine is needed for hormone receptor sensativity.




There is no problem with the body that cant be solved.


I can show you a video with a raw food 49 year old doctor who used to eat the normal diet, was a chiropractor, got into a severe accident and gained 40 pounds. He was wealthy and bought 200 books and ended up going to a raw live vegan superfoods diet, cleaned his body totally free of toxins, heavy metals, yeast, fungas, mold, candida, parasites,ect, which we ALL have to some degree of another, cleaned his liver, kidneys, gallbladder up, and this guy now at 49 years old has a better physique than me and most people on the planet. Should he have lower Testosterone and HGH levels at 49 years old? Shouldnt he have higher Estrogen like most guys that age? He is on no hormonal replacement only natural stuff and this goes to show you what happens when you follow the rules with our bodies like we were supposed to. He's on a raw vegan live superfoods diet and does not work out with weights.


All im saying is that to clean up your act and you will get better, no needles, no synthetics, and only some HCG and Clomid possibly to restart your system only if you are seeing an endo. I highly doubt that Fin is permanently lowering your DHT levels because that is the only reason somebody would have permanent side effects from Fin and in that case maybe try bioidentical DHT cream. I really dont know this is just my logical opinion. Most of these guys claiming permanent sides are living a joke of a unhealthy lifestyle and wonder why there bodies arent working properly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9ccZkGonpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUIimYiMGaw


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...MiqWg&feature=related

 06/18/2009 10:14 PM
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stax
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For the guys who have permanent sexual sides from Propecia, try this product.


http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/ams/aromx.html


Its not 100% natural but its not surpressive like Testosterone therapy and works great to restart your own natural production.


I took this with Fin as was basically a slave to any hot girl i saw.
 06/18/2009 11:06 PM
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Calvin 2.0
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If you are insisting that there is no Fin-induced problem with the body that cannot theoretically be solved, then I might not quibble with you.

You kicked this off by implying that there is no such thing as a non-reversing Fin side effect, period.





As for the hormonal issues:

We're talking about a man medically jacking up his androgen levels first to normal, and then past normal, while under the supervision of a physician, who is focused expressly on treating the Fin sides. I think it's fair to say that there should be some kind of androgenic spike in the sexual/erectile/hormonal systems.

Maybe the change is moderate or maybe it's large, maybe it's immediate or maybe it takes time, maybe it's long-lasting or maybe it crashes later . . . but NO IMPROVEMENT? Come on. Something is really wrong there.

Maybe it's still fixable through healing the body or maybe it's not. But either way, the drug deserves to be blamed for doing SOMETHING pretty far off the mark of the official story. Something that deserves investigation. IMHO we shouldn't be brushing off these complaints as "bullsh*t."

 06/19/2009 10:06 AM
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wakebdr32
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I wouldn't mind trying a liposomal spiro/niz topical if it was available! Anyone got a link where the Dr. sells this (if he sells it)?

BTW I do agree with him on Fin/Dut when it comes to sides and not even close to being the silver bullet....except I know I can quit and the sides will dissipate after trying it before.

-------------------------
44yr old veteran and still NW2. Give your treatment reasonable time, monitor your results and do your own diligence. Many will respond differently to treatment regardless funded Pharma studies and peddlers that speak in absolutes...
 06/19/2009 04:54 PM
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stax
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Originally posted by: wakebdr32

I wouldn't mind trying a liposomal spiro/niz topical if it was available! Anyone got a link where the Dr. sells this (if he sells it)?



BTW I do agree with him on Fin/Dut when it comes to sides and not even close to being the silver bullet....except I know I can quit and the sides will dissipate after trying it before.




http://www.allthingsmale.com/pricelist.html


Dr. John's Anti-Hair Loss Formula $ 55.00 60 ml
 06/19/2009 06:10 PM
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beaner
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So the doctor in the video is bashing propecia and also selling his own hair loss concoction. Hmmm....sounds like the good doctor has an agenda that really has nothing to do with finasteride but is all about making a buck.
 06/19/2009 06:21 PM
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Mabe
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Well, that's just keen detective work. And I guess all the sufferers on propeciahelp.com are all on the "good doctor's" payroll and are in on an extremely elaborate scheme to sell his hair loss products.

Or you could just be in complete denial about the dangerous effects finasteride can have on people.
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