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Topic Title: Lace Will Not 'Disappear' Into Adhesive
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Created On: 11/25/2016 12:33 PM
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 11/25/2016 12:33 PM
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Biggles6000
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This is driving me crazy. No matter what I do, I just can't get the lace to sink into the adhesive and disappear, and, in fact, it's like the adhesive acts as a repellent and the lace just doesn't want to go anywhere near it.

I'm using a full lace custom system, and ORWG (and I've just ordered Ghostbond Supreme, which I've never used before). I was previously using a generic white, water based adhesive from another supplier called 'Perfect' by Rene Duvall. (I've also used the brand Perfector's Plus).

If anyone has any advice -- I'd love to hear from you. I'm under bright lighting with HD cameras, so I really need this taking care ASAP!

Thanks in advance, and feel free to ask any questions.
 11/25/2016 10:32 PM
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learning
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my guess is that the factory silicone coating that they practically bathe the hair in has not been washed away. silicone is slippery ad the attachment if even achieved would be quite poor.
it is not only on the hair but the base too. you need to wash it in something like dawn, or if in the UK i think its something called fairy liquid.
of course wash gently, but thoroughly and you may have to do it more than once to get it sufficiently removed
 11/26/2016 05:23 AM
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Biggles6000
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Thanks for the quick reply -- that could very well be the case. I never really considered that before. I'll give it a shot!
I will say that I've had the system for a couple of months now, and have shampooed it thoroughly, etc.
Would it help if I could post up some pictures of the hairline?
P.S. I'm in the UK -- so I'm guessing just standard Fairy Liquid would do the trick? Any special method with this, or just a simple gentle rinse?
 11/26/2016 07:29 AM
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Diskret
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Hi Biggles6000 - how many layers of glue you are using? I am finding a single layer is not enough - I usually use 2 or 3.

I think photos could be helpful here.
 11/26/2016 09:26 AM
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Biggles6000
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Thanks for the tip -- I always use at least two thin coats (rarely three, as I detach every 5/6 days) -- maybe the adhesive isn't thick enough for the lace to sink into?

Here are two very recent photos. The first one is under low, standard lighting. Not too bad, but both the glue and the lace edge is showing from a good distance.



The second one is that same attachment, same day, with hair pulled back under an overhead light source -- taken close on and zoomed in. Quite a sorry sight I think.



Any ideas?
Advice welcomed from long-time hair wearers, too!

Edited: 11/26/2016 at 09:40 AM by Biggles6000
 11/27/2016 05:52 AM
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Diskret
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Oh yes, that is not good. The base is totally non-connected to your head. I agree the idea about the silicone coating - try to wash it off. Also can you perhaps try 3mil Lace tape instead of glue for your hairline? I think this has better sticky abilities.

Also, I think you can cut back the empty lace more close to the front hairs.

This is your first hair piece?
 11/27/2016 09:12 AM
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Biggles6000
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The image may be a little deceptive in this case -- it is actually stuck down, but from the bottom photo I can see why you'd think otherwise (it's a macro zoom, so you're getting to see what the human eye really doesn't in that instance). I'll give the Fairy Liquid idea a try and see if it helps in the meantime.

Unfortunately I can't trim the lace back any further, as -- and I don't know if you can see this in the photo or not -- there are incredibly well bleached hairs dotted around the perimeter to give the hairline a soft, natural look (natural, that is, if I could solve the bonding issue!).

I'm not sure about the tape -- I need the hairline to be undetectable and I think that would really be swapping one problem for another?

It's not my first system -- I've worn in the past, but had to take an extended break for quite a few years due to illness. I've had this one for a good couple of months and I love the hair (good quality European), it's just the attachment I'm finding I have problems with unfortunately. Thanks again for your advice -- I'll give some of your suggestions a try!

All other opinions still welcome!
 11/27/2016 10:18 PM
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learning
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being that the piece is a few months old and has been washed silicone may not be the issue. it could be whatever you use to clean after detaching, maybe there is a residue.....but in your first pic i not only see the lifting, i see the ripples that are of course more apparent in the super close up. that could happen if you are stretching the piece when you lay it down. i pointed them out in the pic with only arrows, you can see a slight shadow as well.
i understand about the random hairs, but there really isn't a point to random hairs when the bare lace is apparent.
from what i can tell the density is not very high, which is an excellent thing and the graduation is good.
in the pic with arrows and the 2 dotted lines that's all the lace you should really cut away. you need to get close to the hair line. it appears as though the hair line is irregular, another plus and you can keep it irregular when trimming back.
in the pic that's further away you said it is low standard lighting and i could see the poor attachment before i even realized there was a second pic. so yes it is apparent even in that pic there is lifting...
back to the density being that it is not one of those thick stock pieces you should probably try super fine swiss lace instead of french especially since being undetectabile is very important. or at least swiss lace.
glue.....it is possible the coats are to thin.......about 3mil tape....it does give a great hairline. it is basically glue in tape form, but way easier to get right because you apply it to the front edge of the piece. if you go to much over the edge you just rim it back, not so with glue.
for that glue shine....you can dry dabbing your CLEAN oil free finger all over it to dull it somewhat...
hope my advice is clear...

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 11/28/2016 02:14 AM
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Biggles6000
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Thanks for the advice -- definitely appreciated. I am actually using swiss lace, not french lace in the above photos -- do you think that the lace should be finer than this?
I'll trim the hairline back a little (it's possible that I may have lost a few hairs at the front due to general wear and tear -- I usually trim back to right where the hair begins).

Maybe there's a build up of 'invisible' adhesive on the lace at the hairline -- would that cause the lifting? I only clean my system using the mirror slide (but I'm thorough), and then I shampoo and rinse the system as normal.

As a rule, I use a water based white glue on the hairline only, and supertape low profile on the back and sides (the whole system is swiss lace).

Where can I buy the 3mil tape from in the UK, and does anyone have a good, high res close up of a hairline attachment with this tape?

Edited: 11/28/2016 at 05:06 AM by Biggles6000
 11/28/2016 06:29 AM
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Diskret
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The lace looks good, and as you said, the bleaching of the knots is extra good. But I disagree you that the lace is stuck down - stucked lace is not looking like this. It was maybe stucked down before, but now it is become loose I think.

Like Learning says, 3mil tape is not really tape - no plastic layer - just glue made like a tape. I think you could get a better result from this. Worth it to try it?

I also agree you maybe make the layers of glue too thin. The threads of the lace should sink into the glue and present a almost flat surface to the view. This is a picture of my hairline closeup. I try to point it in the light so you may see the lace a bit - normally it is very unvisible.



Edited: 11/28/2016 at 06:41 AM by Diskret
 11/28/2016 07:07 AM
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Biggles6000
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Diskret -- that's a great looking bond (though the resolution isn't quite HD)! I appreciate you taking the time to post up the photo, too. Is this bonded with adhesive or the 3 mil tape? If it's the tape, do you know where I can get some in the UK?
 11/28/2016 07:21 AM
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Diskret
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Yes, sorry it's not so clear. It's just a part of a bigger photo. I have some better photos, but I don't want to post more now.

I think this was ORWG (oil resistant white glue). You can get it from EBay or Hair Direct in Europa.

Edited: 11/28/2016 at 03:18 PM by Diskret
 11/28/2016 07:26 AM
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Biggles6000
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Thanks, I'll send you an email!
I have the ORWG -- it just arrived a few days ago -- I'll give it a try!
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